âWell, yes, she. You know that no woman can be a priest. So, no woman can be a seminarian. So, no woman will be allowed to preach. So, thereâs no reason for women to learn how to preach.â
Koesler, clearly taken aback, sat bolt upright. âIs that the way it is everywhere? In all seminaries?â
âNo. Itâs actually about fifty-fifty. But it doesnât really matter. Whether a woman can go for a Master of Divinity degree or not, the bottom line is, women canât be priests. No matter how good or bad a preacher a woman would be, she is not going to preach. In a way, not offering women the opportunity to earn an M.Div degree is maybe more ⦠more honest.â
âMore honest!â
âYes! It tells her right up front how itâs going to be in her ministry. It doesnât give her any reason to expect that things will change. The Pope said it: Women canât be priests. So why teach them how to do something theyâre never going to do?â
Koesler shook his head. âWith policies like this, there canât be many women here as students.â
âYouâre wrong, Bob. Want me to give you a breakdown?â
Koesler sat back and nodded.
McNiff wondered why the space between them seemed to be widening. He hadnât adverted to Koeslerâs gradually distancing himself.
âSee, there are approximately three hundred and twenty students in St. Joeâs Seminary. Thatâs for four years of college and four years of theology. Of that number about seventy are seminarians. Which leaves about two hundred and fifty non-MDivsâroughly a hundred men and a hundred and fifty women. The only way you can come up with more men than women is if you add the M.Div males to the nonseminarian men. That way, you get one hundred and seventy men and one hundred and fifty women.â
âFrankly, Pat, I donât get it. Why would so many women sign upâfreelyâat an institution that discriminates against them?â
âDiscrimination is a powerful word, Bob. We could argue about thatâand we probably will before the eveningâs over. But thereâs a likely reason for their being hereâall these women, I mean. I had a problem understanding this at first. But now it makes sense.â
âHelp me.â
âAs far as weâre able to tell, not all the women who enroll here want to be priestsânot by a long shot. The aim for many of them is to become catechists or directors of religious education ⦠or some of the other degree positions we offer.â
âBut by your own admission, Pat, some of these women students do want to be priests.â
McNiff nodded.
Koesler raised his hands in a gesture of incomprehension. âWhy?â
McNiff shrugged. âHope against hope. Hoping the Church will change its position.â
Koesler thought for a few moments. âYou have how many studying for the priesthood?â
âSeventy.â
âAny idea how many seminarians we had here in this placeâs heyday?â
It didnât require any research on McNiffâs part. Those figures haunted him and anyone else who was concerned with the seminaryâs future. âThatâd be in the mid-sixties. There were seven hundred in high school. Of course we donât have a high school anymore. Then there were about two hundred and forty in college and approximately another two hundred and fifty at St. Johnâs.â
âSo,â Koesler summed up, âthere were almost eleven hundred seminarians then to our seventy now. That rightâcounting the high schoolers of that time, I mean?â
McNiff nodded slowly.
Koesler turned his gaze to the window. But his focus was inward, not on the nondescript view of another brick wall. After a few minutes, without returning his gaze to McNiff, Koesler said, âI guess Iâd have to put my money on the women who are looking for ordination. The Catholic